Possible Gay Couple in the Old Testament! (1 Samuel, Chapter 18)

Jonathan and David

There may not have been an Adam and Steve, but there was a Jonathan and Dave.  Chapter 18 opens up with the understandably little known story of Jonathan and David, and it reads like they were gay lovers of the type found in Athenian or Carthaginian soldiers, like the Sacred Band of Thebes.

Now, I'm sure there's plenty of apologetics out there trying to explain this away, so here's the facts, not the spin.  18:1 says that their souls were knit together.18:3 says David loved Jonathan as his own soul.  18:4 says Jonathan took off all his clothes and armor and gave it to David.

It's ambiguous and the point can be argued either way, but it is at least suspicious to the average reader, which I purport myself to be.  I'm just reading the Bible again just to make sure I didn't miss anything.  This second time around is obviously a lot more engaged then previous times.

Also in this chapter, Saul, who I guess has not been told yet that he's not the king that Yahweh (God) wants, is becoming jealous of David.  Apparently, they start a contest on who can kill the most people in the name of God.  This is like the wet dream of the most religious people alive today!

King Saul engages in a little bit of deception.  Saul saw that David was enamored with his daughter, and figured that giving her to David would calm him down.  Saul said David can have his daughter (named Michal), and he didn't need a dowry.  However, he did want 100 Philistine foreskins.

Think about that.

A lot of people give their wife a wedding ring, in some cultures the groom is expected to give the family money or gifts (a dowry), but in this case David is asked to bring 100 FORESKINS!

Well, David wanted Michal so bad that he went and killed 200 Philistines, and brought back 200 foreskins.  Piles of foreskins seems to be a fairly common thing in the Old Testament!   Paying 200 foreskins for a bride is a rather odd price, and it's also very weird.  That's why I find it interesting that this story isn't as well-known as it ought to be.

It almost seems like our own modern morality causes Bible readers to ignore these passages.  Not me.  I find these passages immensely interesting, and at the same time it just cements my personal belief that Bible is not a guide to morality, but "empty bleatings of a barbaric tribe", as Christopher Hitchens might put it.

Deuteronomy Chapter 15 tackles the troubling issue of poverty and slavery. I think it has some nice things to say about poverty.

15:7 says, "If there be among you a poor man ... thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother."

And 15:11 says, (15:11)"Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy."

Yes. That's great advice! It still sounds good to this very day. Would you agree?

And then there's slavery.

15:12-17 says, "If thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee.
and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee. And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him. And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command thee this thing to day. And it shall be, if he say unto thee, I will not go away from thee; because he loveth thee and thine house, because he is well with thee. Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever."

Basically, after a slave's seven year term, hook him up and be generous to him as he parts ways. If he/she wants to stay with you, drill a hole through his ear into a door and he'll be your servant for life.

Judging from a modern-day perspective, more than 2,000 years later, a perspective with the hindsight of the Civil Rights era, the American Civil War, and the various practices of slavery before then; slavery has been a big moral issue for humanity. It's still a big issue today; and the arguments even delve into what is called wage slavery - which is basically what everyone calls "working". Anytime another human's labor is owned, and not purchased in any way, that raises the question of slavery and whether it is moral.

But 3,000 years ago when Deuteronomy was written, nobody in ancient Israelite society had these conversations (or at least published them).

So I ask you, the reader, this: What is it that makes it possible for people today to pick up the Bible, read Deuteronomy Chapter 15, and see that one set of passages are moral, and another set isn't?

Dennis,

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Out of sheer coincidence, nonstampcollector just put this up today and describes what I'm trying to explain to you in cohesive manner.

Religion is a failed science. It is, depending on the religion, either a 1300-year-old conversation explaining the universe (Islam), or a 2000-year-old conversation (Christianity), or even older (every other major religion). Judeo-Christian religion in particular is a scientific claim about the natural world (it was created in six days), and about morality (i.e. we get morality from the Bible).

I am taking up a challenge by a friend of mine, to prove my claim that while we can not prove or disprove whether God exists; we can disprove with relative ease, specific religions. I am going to focus on Judeo-Christian religion because Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the most influential religions in the U.S., and the west. They dominate politics, the news, and our lives. In the case of Judaism, which isn't as influential, it is none the less the father of both of the latter religions.

Today, religion has very little impact on modern-day science’s facts and theories. In fact, it's losing on a thousand fronts against science. It does have an impact on public policies that ultimately affect how we go about our scientific discourse. This is because of the sheer amount of people who still believe, unjustly, that their religion is the one and only, Capital-T “Truth”. That's why a critique like this one is necessary.

As a disclaimer, let me assure you three things: 1) We nonbelievers are not trying to outlaw religion. 2) By criticizing religion, we're not persecuting religious people. I should remind believers that persecution has been carried out in far more heinous ways then constructive criticism. 3) We're also not demonizing spirituality, as no one can argue that spiritual experiences do not happen. I have them. You have them. Those who have had them, can agree that they're very important. All we're doing is bringing religion into the political spotlight, where we can discuss it like rational men and women. We should do this because it affects the politics that govern all of us. In fact, I'd argue that it is our duty as citizens to have these kinds of discussions.

I will admit that our goal is to reduce religion's influence on politics, and be recognized as something akin to astrology in how seriously it is to be taken.

'YOU HAVE TO HAVE FAITH'

Most believers will find they have no basis for their beliefs at all. When the critique comes, they will first fall back from specific claims about Jesus or Mohammed, to a more general and vague 'deist' god. This god is not compatible with the personal God that they call Yahweh or Allah. After this point about incompatibility is made, believers will generally fall back to the foggy and shady adage: "You just have to have faith." This is poor reasoning, as it is the same argument that can be used for Santa Clause, leprechauns, or unicorns.

Then there are those few who ground their beliefs in rhetoric and mental gymnastics. These latter people are what we usually call “apologists.” It is to the apologists that I write the rest of this, as I believe they're the only ones who can appreciate the claims I am making about what is true and false.

WRONG BY THE STANDARDS OF SCIENCE

At the root of Islam and Christianity lies Judaism. If Judaism is proven wrong, then Islam and Christianity are wrong by extension. There are numerous claims about the Old Testament that we can say are wrong; historically, scientifically, and ethically. I could mention the Old Testament's mention of four-legged insects, bats that are referred to as “birds”, and all sorts of interesting phenomena described in the Bible that science has proven untrue. I’ll describe just one of these in the interest of readership.

For instance, in the Book of Genesis, in Chapter 1, the author(s) of Genesis wrote that God created a firmament to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. Essentially, this is stating that prior to the creation of the Earth there was nothing but a huge blob of water. The Sumerian myths from which the Genesis myth is influenced call this blob of water “the waters of chaos.” The waters of chaos is a formless, deep, void of water. Genesis 1:6 "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."

The firmament is an invisible, physical barrier that made a separation, almost like a bubble, within the waters of chaos. Except this “bubble” was half spherical, with the Earth being its bottom border. The purpose of the firmament was to allow a space for God to create mountains, and trees and animals.

Here is my point. The firmament is a scientific claim. It is falsifiable.

It’s a scientific claim because it was a theory that these Bronze Age, desert priests who lived 3 to 4,000 years ago, made by observing nature. Looking up at the sky on a clear day one can’t help but observe that the sky is blue. Like water. From horizon to horizon, the view appears circular. When it rains, water comes from the sky. If you dig deep enough, you’ll find water. All of these phenomena are explained with the firmament.

That was 3,000 years ago.

Today, thanks to the scientific method, we know that on the other side of the Earth’s atmosphere there is a void of empty space, there are no boundless amounts of water. We know that the Earth is round, that it revolves around the sun, and that we are on the edge of a galaxy comprised of millions of other stars. We know from our studies in meteorology why it rains; that water vapors condense in huge cumulonimbus clouds and when the condensed water gets too heavy, it falls to the ground. We know from geology that water naturally collects underground in water tables, or simply “groundwater.”

That is the power of science to relinquish the claims of religions. Imagine if scientific progress was forced to stop at Isaac Newton’s discoveries just a few hundred years ago. We would have no trains, automobiles, telephones, satellites, nuclear power, or anything like that. We wouldn’t know about the theory of relativity or about evolution.

For billions of people, it is kind of like that, except instead of 300 years they are incorporating a belief that stopped progressing anywhere from 1300 to 2000 years ago.

WRONG BY THE STANDARDS OF MORALITY

Another study that has shown that the religion of Judaism to be wrong is ethics. For millennia Judeo-Christian religions have claimed that their religion instills moral principles into people. While there are plenty of great things that are said in these traditions, and even more so in the Eastern religions, it should be noted that morality doesn’t come from religion. It comes from our own intuitions. Since the Bronze Age, our vision of morality has changed drastically. Heck, our moral intuitions have changed immensely since the 1950s!

But I digress; the Old Testament goes into detail on how we should keep, or punish, slaves. The Old Testament also goes into detail on how we should beat our children or kill them if they talk back to us, whether we should sell our daughters into slavery, or whether we should kill nonbelievers and homosexuals. We in modern Western society no longer do any of that, and we have rightfully decided that these are disgusting and immoral acts.

Instead, we choose to focus (rightfully) on passages about loving our neighbors, being tolerant, and similar moral claims that have withstood the test of time.It isn’t the Bible that gave us morality. Rather, it is our our desire to relieve suffering, both in ourselves and in others, that makes us moral. Empathy and compassion, which are Christian characteristics, are also characteristics shared by many other religions, like Buddhists and Jainism.

Many folks insist that we get our morality from the Bible and religion. But they are obviously mistaken. We do not get our morality from Bronze Age texts. All we have ever done is choose what is moral and what to ignore.

As an example, let us consider the 10 Commandments. The 2nd Commandment says that we “shall not create graven images …” As a statement of morality, this doesn’t seem like it should be listed as the second most important commandment, or simply on any list of 10 moral precepts. We can place anything we want as the 2nd Commandment and it will almost be guaranteed to be more moral. “Thou shalt not kill animals needlessly” is a much more moral commandment then the one we are familiar with. Or, as Sam Harris says, “Thou shalt not fry all of your foods.”

CONCLUSION

In conclusion, I have shown that Judaism and the Old Testament are filled with scientific (the firmament) and moral (slavery, wife-killing) untruths. Judaism is the foundation of all Judeo-Christian religions, and so by extension all Judeo-Christian religions aren't 'true'. This is because the Bronze Age scientific explanations set forth by those desert tribes have been proven false by modern-day science. Furthermore, the dialogue on morality has evolved so much over the millennia that the Old Testament morality is completely alien to us, as anyone who has read the Old Testament can agree. It is through this ongoing human conversation that employs philosophical reasoning, the passage of time, and just regular old fashioned conversation, that morality itself has diverged from our ancient religious texts. However, I would suggest that the two, morality and religion, do come from the same place. The human mind.

"And they stoned him with stones until he was dead, as Yahweh had ordered them." - Numbers 15:36

Imagine you're out gathering firewood for the family on a Sunday morning, and then your neighbors see you, apprehend you, and then bring you to your church pastor, who sentences you to death. Would that suck?

Well, that's how people rolled back then, and they were only following the 4th Commandment: "Keep the Sabbath holy."

Back then, the Israelites had their Sabbath on Saturdays (Jews still do), but it's the same concept - one mandatory day off. Have you noticed that no one follows this anymore? Plenty of people work on Sundays - lawn maintenance, shopping, working, auto care, gardening, etc. If the 10 Commandments were still in effect, there's be a lot of killin'. Christians say it's because Jesus nullified the Old Testament law. Then why the big fuss about the 10 Commandments?

Well, Jesus didn't. In fact, he said that not one jot or scribble of the law shall pass until he returns. Is it moral to follow the 4th Commandment?

There's two responses that usually arise when questioning the 10 Commandments. First, "It was okay in that time and that cultural context," and "Come on, Andy. A guy getting executed for picking up sticks is a little bit extreme."

Well, Numbers Chapter 15, Verses 32 through 36 has an interesting story about a young man who was picking up sticks one fine Sabbath day.

They "caught" him, which kind of sounds like the guy even took off and ran, and then brought him before Moses, Aaron, and the rest of the community. They put him into custody, while Moses talked with the Almighty (Yahweh), asking Him what to do with the evil stick-gatherer.

Yahweh Himself says, "The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp."

And so they took the guy outside the camp, and the entire community threw stones at him until he died.

Again, I ask: Is it moral to follow the 4th Commandment?

Leviticus, Chapter 19 goes on to show how nutty the Israelites concept of Yahweh is. On the one hand He's threatening them with death for using idols, and on the other he's telling them to leave extra grapes out for travelers. He might as well tell them to pick cherries.

He also brings up a lot of stuff that He mentioned before, like in the 10 Commandments. He tells them don't use My name in vain, don't steal, don't lie, etc.

You'd think there would be a point where the Israelites would look up to God and say, "Hey buddy, you've said that before. Um, can we cover some new ground please? I mean, why is the sky blue?"

Of course, anyone who asked that would probably die immediately.

Back then, the Israelites believed the sky was blue because there was an infinite amount of water being held up behind an invisible wall called the firmament (see Genesis Chapter 1). Yahweh, being a Sumerian sky god, should've told these people what's up, literally what's up?

"No, the sky is blue because of light from the sun bouncing off of molecules in the atmosphere. And there's an infinite vacuum punctuated by humongous balls of nuclear power, of which the sun is just one of them."

If the Bible had something like that written down, scientists today would all be at least deists.

Well anyways, Chapter 19 is at the very least a nice change of pace from Chapter 18. But it still has its problems.

Another problem is that when the Israelites finally get to where they're going, they're supposed to plant fruit trees, BUT the fruit from trees that are less then 3 years old are "uncircumcised". What the hell?

And then it starts talking about magic and astrology, both are things that I think are bunk and so does Yahweh apparently. But should we put to death those who do try to practice things? I don't think so. I think laughing at them is sufficient enough.

God also has a problem with guys who round out the corners of their head or beards, presumably He's talking about haircuts.

Since there are people out there using the Bible for morality, they're going to have to pick and choose. A lot of the most devout followers of the Bible that I know are clean-shaven, but they'll readily point to a chapter like this one to say why astrology is evil. The truth is that everyone who follows Judaism or Christianity are cherry-pickers.

Exodus 21 through 23

I'm just going to lay out some of my favorite laws in these chapters.

Slavery

• If you buy a Hebrew slave, you must free him on his seventh year. Other slaves are screwed.


• If you gave your slave a wife while he was a slave and she has kids, the wife and children belong to the master. I don't have to say anything about this one.
• If you sell your daughter into slavery and she doesn't please her master, then the master can sell her in a "strange nation". Basically, if you need some extra cash, SELL YOUR DAUGHTER INTO SLAVERY!
• The master should be punished if he beats his slave so severely that he or she dies, or is out of commission for longer than a day. Otherwise, no biggy.
• If you beat your slave so severely he loses an eye or a tooth, then you have to free your slave.

Family Values

• If you're child hits you; kill him!
• If you're child cusses at you; KILL HIM!
• If you seduce a woman to have sex with you, you have to marry her. But if her father is against the marriage, you must pay her the market price for virgins.
• Be kind to strangers, widows, and orphans. If not, God will not only kill you, but make your wife a widow and your child an orphan (duh).
• Give your firstborn son to God ... child sacrifice???

Animals

• If an ox kills someone, STONE the ox! If the ox's owner lies about the ox being aggressive in the past, stone him too!
• If you dig a pit, and an ox falls and dies in it; the dead animal is your's!
• Don't boil a baby goat in its mother's milk

Other stuff

• You shouldn't worship other people's gods. In fact, you should overthrow them!
• Fellow Israelites don't get an interest rate when you loan to them, but foreigners - charging interest is okay

A few good things

• Don't do what others do if you think it's wrong
• If you witness an enemy's livestock wandering astray; you should bring it back to him.
• Be honest, and don't kill innocent people.
• Help out poor people